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The new form of Powerlamer
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Truia
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2003 9:28 am    Post subject: The new form of Powerlamer Reply with quote

Tis is dissapointing to say the least. Is not really a form of powergameing but its lame none the less.

Players now wait for Dm events and quests, this is fine you know YAHOOO we all love to be in events.

But listen, when the event starts out as a few people lets say 5 then those 5 ask someone else to join them that makes 10(simple math right) well half the server is involved in a quest, the lag gets horrible, unbearable.

Heres a simple request from one player to others....

DONT invite others into an event, who werent there from the start, it causes confusion and chaos, then of course the lag kicks in.

when I wake up I hope to be in an event that Y is doing with LOW numbers all through out it, hopefully only those who are there from the start or need to be there like how I am being introduced as an aid for this event.

I know that when I used to DM I never put up with such crap, anyone who didnt belong were sent else where, and if they came back they were kicked from the server till the event was over.
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2003 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Truia, what about the other people on the server? Will we be excluded because we weren't there to begin with? I find that a wee bit unfair. I mean, sure, lag might be unbearable- but thats no reason to have a select few have all the fun while the rest of us make room for the 30 others powerleveling in the crypts while this goes on.

Truia wrote:
I know that when I used to DM I never put up with such crap, anyone who didnt belong were sent else where, and if they came back they were kicked from the server till the event was over.


Anyone who didn't belong? So you're classifying us by our name, or who we are in the Dyso society? The main point of the server is to provide 'everyone' with fun, which does not mean that DMs will only allow players to participate on a 'first come first serve' basis.

And you used the word 'crap'- putting up with crap; meaning putting up with the people who want to have fun, but come late? I am usually one of the late comers, so thusly, in your terminology, im considered as 'crap'? I must give this a hell no- there is no way I'm going to walk away from an event in a community which I have contributed so much too. I also speak for the newcomers, as I don't want them to get ushered away on their first day in Dyso.

My two cents.
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Y
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2003 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hum..... allow myself to reply to this topic. Before it turns out in a ran flame complain thing.

I think is goes down deep as haw DM handle event. I cant speak for the other. but as my name was mentionned. I ll give you "my" way of DM ing.


there are basicly diferent types of events..

1)Locals events, that target small group of player passing by. it is basicly aimed as spiced the ordinary days

2)Globals events, aimed at anyone able to figure out what is going on using the forum, using IC chat with others etc.

also some time i like to make converge several local events involving different players to a global events.


Palladium you jumped on guns on truia and i understand what both or you were tring to say (i hope)

what is palladium saying is that we dont want even to be meant only for happyfew and the other player left out of the loop.
I couldnt agree more, and it is my job to try to entertain a maximum number of diff players...

what is tuia is saying is in fact the same as palladium: if you happend to be involved in an event with others .. it aint really fair to other player TP your buddy at the other side of the realm to come around ... what about the other players that migt be near by ?
If you only tell tour freind about event then this leads to happyfew situation and some players are left alone...


what i am saying is Trust the DM, If In an event he want you to involve other players (the rest of your guild or the rest of your party) he will tell you.. ( I tell player things like... "might be a good time as an other to use your telpathic ability or pigeon to call for help" etc etc)


If I want an event to be global , he will shout, post message on the forum, teleport evryone etc...


I think i said it all..

ps: the event with the chaos dragon that i hope to finish tonight (europe)
well i posted about it in the event and in the ic.. so I guess anyone clever enought to figure it out is invited..
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2003 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree with Y, trust the DM to get the right ppl to start an event. Altho I must admit it does sometime annoy me when you're on a roll then new ppl join and everything has to be explained, breaking the momentum.
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2003 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am opposed to the strategy of using tells and partytalk to inform other people on the server, when an event occurs near you. It's total OOC info...so crap on that.

Global events is another issue.
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2003 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as dm i tend to set up events that take weeks to unfold dropping small encounters, events and clues on a diverse number of players, hoping they'll pull together or oppose eachother, depending on character. I'm opposed to calling everyone to the big event. It makes no sense and gereally the roleplaying improves the smaller the party. Can you imagine running a story with 20 players ranging from obnoxious powerplaying evil players to well thought out lawfull good ones. It's hell i tell you. Not to mention the lag...
When in a pen and paper campaign you play with about 4 players. You can maybe expand that to 6 players in a computergame but that already gets hard when the encounter involves talking or more complex situations. Plus you gotta watch what everyone is saying, you have to cue your effects, your encounters, possession, reactions, and dialogue on cue. It's not as easy as it looks from a player's perspective.
It's really only the big wars that can involve a good share of players but you probably all noticed that generally that ends up in massive lag or crashes.
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Truia
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2003 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I brought this up for a reason. I came across a group of people drooling over the fact a DM evnt might happen, AND that they might be able to get better EQ out of it. Fine fine I mean who doesnt like getting something new, but being OOC when you think no one is listening is something else.

You saw how it can get out of hand your self Palladium. With the Drow and Neverwinters, I was asked to come along I said sure, I even contributed to the event, you left for the exact reason that it got out of hand, because people were impatient about the interogation, BECAUSE mroe and more people showed up who had NO clue what was going on.

The server were I DM had a huge populace of players who were there for a long time, I hardly ever did quests or events with them, that was my job basically to take new people to the server and give them the oppertunity to RP themselvs alittle, thus not tolerating new people joinging in sincec the only people who could join in would be either completely new arrivals OR our regulars.

I worked with players 3-7 in levels, so I made events suiting for this. The first time I hosted an event. I allowed others to join in, it slows everything down to a crawl, and then there was the higher levels joining in. I thought great for higher to lower level realations, wrong the reward system was for the players invovled to pick something their level from an event shop and they would get it, dyso doesnt do this of course so I dont see problems with that.

The problem is when new players are introduced to the plot of an event what has happened has to be explained again.

Perhaps the problem isnt the events getting crowded, or new people comeing in, but rather the new people dont know what they are getting into. I asked Y to explain what has happened and I am going to ask again after I am done this post, so I am sure what should be happeneing and what has happened.
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2003 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There seems to be an easy solution to all this...

DM's ... when you begin an event, just tell the players involved whether we should keep it quiet or invite a few others. I've seen Y do this and it works wonderfully. It breaks the flow just a little, but a quick "OOC - don't invite anyone new" helps keeps things in check.

Also, regarding disappointed players who are left out at that point in time, a quick ... "don't worry, you'll have an event sometime later, I'm not trying to exclude you, just trying to keep things manageable" would help prevent grief (granted, there will always be some griefers).

Players ... if there's some friends you want to bring to an event, just politely ask the DM if you can invite a few others.

In terms of the fairness issue, that's again up to the DM's to keep an eye on who's involved a lot and who's missing out. While I've had my share of events, I have friends who have NEVER had an event... and they're around levels 12-15.

While we're on the subject ... a quick note about treasure. It appears that there are some players who are real good about looting and others who seldom loot. I don't think quest items should go only to the looters. To the DM's ... I would request that you do a little more individual player rewards. That takes more time/effort on your part, but does insure more equity in the reward system. To the players ... if you happen upon a cache of items, endeavor to pass them to others who participated.

Might this work? It will take a team effort on all of our parts, but I think it'll ameliorate the issues raised earlier. Obviously, all this is simply part of the "learning curve" towards being the best mod around.

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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2003 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DM events suck!!!

I've only been in two... they were a blast!!!

BUT... they suck because they are targeted to select groups. I have spoken to at least a dozen players who have made this point to me and I see that they are correct.

Catch that?

In my two months playing on Dyso, I have participated in all of TWO dm events (both led by Conrad... hooray for Conrad!) and have received only ONE special item and NO treasure. BLAH! Can't say I respect that too much as I know some people that have pack-fulls of special items.

Okay, sure I started out powergaming for about the first four weeks. But for the past four weeks, I've been RP'ing all over Dyso about 99% of the time I'm on (or more). Still only TWO events, count 'em... O-N-E... T-W-O. I've been at my current level for the past three weeks and I play everyday and still NO dm events.

Back to powergaming for me! That's the only way I'll get to hunt and gain enough gold to BUY my less precious items.

Special items? I'll just have to powergame even more so I can buy them from those that have pack-fulls that they don't even use (that is if they haven't already given them away to their low-level friends).

If anyone who is involved in DM events on a regular basis ever complains about powergaming again... I'll skin you!!! Some of us are COMPELLED to powergame so that we can make our own events in areas that are fresh and new (and more difficult).

Meanwhile... we'll continue to RP as well... like the game was meant to be... BUT... screw DM events... they are just too focused on a select crowd... period. If one finds me... great! It will be welcomed! But I've really given up on waiting!!!
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2003 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to double-post....

One more thing... there are a lot of players on Dyso... DM's can't cover all of them... that's the facts!!!

So be it.

Just leave us powergaming roleplayers alone, other players, and we'll be glad to stay out of your precious DM events.

DMs... if you want to spring some events on the rest of us... we would be elated with the opportunity... but I know you are busy with the groupies.
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2003 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,

I was not involved in too many dm-events. To be accurate, it was one only, though it was fun to play. As Falkhor mentioned, it is not only the capability of the dm to handle multiple players, it is the current bandwith of the dyso-server also, that limits the scale of events. From that point of view, it would be logical to start heavy-plotted events only, if the number of players is low or medium. If there is a higher number of players, then the events could be scaled down a bit. Maybe just doing a bit fun with small groups and then looking out for others to make them feel crazy for the rest of their dyso day icon_wink.gif.

Anyway, I would not keep out any players only because they are late or newbies or whatever. There are many players, who want to play with their friends or just like to tell them about on-going events. Keeping others out without a very good reason (is there any ?) is a very efficient fun and community killer.
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not_so_unique
PostWed 05/21/03 3:31pm
And now an apology... as I read back over my posts I realize my Irish blood boiled over... no offense meant to anyone!

Peace!
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PostWed 05/21/03 11:27pm
Apology accepted me thought was best post of lot funny and sarcastic.  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2003 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

for me personally if im involved in an event or not dosnt really make a difference,
coz i always have my hands in sumthin even if there is an event going on that im not part of...hehe icon_biggrin.gif
and if i feel like it i tag along even if im not invited hehe icon_biggrin.gif

anyways...
everybody should try to get into some player run events or sumthin, start thinkin up your own stuff to do, and im sure if its cool a Dm will jump in and help out anyways.....thats what i think
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Raven
PostWed 05/21/03 11:43pm
Just a quicknote, instead of spawning 100s of monsters, Dms should spawn a few tougher ones. The lag is horrible in the last event.  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know what you reefer to Raven not sure myself wether monsters or not..not so different in amount to Gloth event.it could have been the monsters or it could have been the sudden influx of troops the massive buffing and everyone throwing off spells.As for the lower monsters that was good I used no magic as i watched many foolishly use high level spells against weak monsters.As there was no way out to rest few mages would have died when the second wave of monsters came.
as it was as they came people started swapping bodies and crashing.No trhe first wave of low level monsters was good.As you saw a good example of so called intelligent wizards and ilk showing a remarkable lack of brains.So the DMs tactic was valid I was amused to watch the massive overkill as was certain more to come...which is the point of making resting harsher too make people think conserve not throw everything at once.
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Raven
PostThu 05/22/03 1:22am
1 wail of the banshee killed the first wave. I'd gladly use a high lvl spell like that and kill 50 monsters than spend 50 magic missiles one by one.  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys should read this.

Might shed some light on things, since it's more or less linked to the issue you're discussing here.
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last event I was in I lost over 3000 experience due to lag and an Ancient Blue Dragon.

Negative power gaming icon_smile.gif
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2003 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wanted to say that I have been pleased overall with how the DMs run this server. Some problems occur but there is no use attacking them... if you can do a better job than prove it through good rp and patience, perhaps you can become one. You want more events? Send a pay cheque... they are doing their bit to make our lives a bit more fun for free. I know I prefer the smaller events that do not give uber items or such things, but deal with conversation and intrigue among the NPCs. I think all the good rpers who know how to keep their IC and OOC affairs separate and are patience shall eventually have their bit of fun.

If the events are the priority.. than it is only because players are not rping. This is a big world with more players online than most... if we cannot spread a bit of intrigue and adventure without the DMs... we are to blame for our lack of imagination. ((Three cheers for that bastard William Spears! I shall sing while I tear out his entrails!))

Honestly though, get some more guilds together, they do not have to be formal with special DM items... just your mates and some ambition we do not need constant attention and babysitting by a DM. These goblins are the best thing I have seen since joining here, they are players that fulfil the same role as the Drow or NWN troops. They are filthy little bandits (but I love the rascals) but when the DMs go to bed they are still around biting our ankles (actually many are rather tough now... err)).

Claim a stretch of road and demand tolls... plot to assasinate a major player (even a DM controled one lol)... instigate some rivalries... declare open season on goblins... Meet the elven maiden of your dreams... Take some chances and make some enemies you will find out who your friends are fairly fast. Talk to other players on the forums and see if they would help orchestrate a conflict ooc. I know that there are many of us who would gladly politick and intrigue against each other ((eyes Palladium suspisciously... bayonet fixed)).

I know this is long, that others have made similar statements and feel the same way I do... but I just wanted to toss in My Two Cents (thank you Kent Brockman).
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2003 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will say one thing though, if a DM doesn't take notice of players then eventually the neglected ones leave... -_-

it's sad but being left in the dirt is no fun for anyone.... but mostly dm events should be like they said, local or earth shattering...
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2003 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah... most people probably don't like being overlooked... but that is how it must be when people consume DM's time by whining for this and that at once.

Seems there must be a solution... oh yeah... shut yer mouths and RP for fun! If a DM finds you... great! If you have an RP idea and you need a prop from a DM, then maybe it would be appropriate to make a simple request as it would not require much of their time.

I saw Xavier Dotson use a DM-provided pet chicken to send unsuspecting players on a bogus quest on time... it was really amusing!

Maybe something like that would be a good reason to contact DMs when they are on... otherwise... people really need to give them room to work.
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2003 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why should it matter if more people come and join the event...hmmm. Are you trying to keep all the loot for your self? It's all about people having fun and for those people that say they have never been in a event, well it's time to get your head out of the cyrpts. The DM's also seem to be open to ideas. So run out and contact your local DM today!
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2003 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have said before I am always willing to entertain quest ideas ... just send me a PM about what you had in mind. I won't promise to do it exactly as you lay it out ... general ideas tend to get a better response from me than telling me exactly how you want it to happen ...

Nonetheless there hasn't been a quest request yet that I have totally shot down. There have been several quests/events I have run in conjunction with character-related happenings and the like based on intelligent requests sent to me in a private message.
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2003 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DM_Logic wrote:
...for those people that say they have never been in a event, well it's time to get your head out of the cyrpts.


I haven't been in the crypts more than two hours in the past 20 hours spent in Dyso. When I play, I RP 90% of the time (if you do the math). Just last night I sat in the Inn for nearly 3 hours helping a guild recruit members (and I am not even in that guild) in order to enhance the Dyso experience for all.

I respect other player's quests and choose not to crash them. If a DM event finds me... it is welcomed. But it hasn't in some time... but that's okay. Conrad's are the only DM events I have been in (twice) in 2 months on Dyso. I have caught the tail-end of two of Y's and was excluded (for lack of better word) in another of Y's. That's okay by me cause I wasn't invited in the first place and I never complained about no plot nor no reward.

That's all.

Edits: Lots and lots of typos... and an update.

Make that three and this past one was also with Conrad. It was especially good as my character discovered a suitable god. That was reward enough! But there were also items at the end! Conrad is indeed quite a very good DM as the RP experience was pertinent to my character. I appreciate his creativity!

Last Edit:
When it rains it pours. Make that four. First one with "Y" who approached my char and others in town. It was a blast even though my char died when the cat jumped on my arms at the kb, lol! No prob... Y is considerate and all is restored without even having to ask. Good fun!


Last edited by not_so_unique on Sat May 24, 2003 9:13 am, edited 6 times in total
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Raven
PostSat 05/24/03 12:45am
What's so good about the crypts?  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2003 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know a really fun thing that you can do as a power lamer thin, its a class combo that bio discussed a while back, works best with elf, 15 fighter 2 paladin 3 rogue, dex / str fighter, use him to pp and go on killing sprees, mucho fun.... i can never forget that one... grr, it was a pvp combo from a while back...
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2003 11:07 pm    Post subject: ohh jeez... Reply with quote

Well i'd like to start off saying: " the DM's do almost as good a job as i would have done" emot-yum.gif

Anyway i really feel you people are all about the treasure and exp.Can't an event be successful even if you didn't get your mean-ass items?
The rp you do (the way you play your char) decides if you are worth getting a reward or not.If you have the standard paladin who goes around smackin people cause they look evil you should think again.When it comes to making a good char (atleast from my point of view) you have to make something unique.forinstance a greedy paladin or a wussy barbarian.

I mean.How easy would it not be to come up with ways to rp if you had a barbarian who was afraid of blood?And trust me.Special characters have a way of getting noticed by dm's if your concerned about rewards that is.

And as for rp'ing in crowds.Just make yourself noticable.Don't stand in the back saying "yes" or "no" once in awhile.Try to be active and involvle yourself abit.yes you might make the npc mad and get attacked ,but then it's worth it for having fun rp.Just yesterday i had a whole lot of fun with this undead/elf cleric guy and threatened to make soup out of him.

And as for you people who don't participate in events because you never have the possibility becasue when your on no dm's are on.well,that's just too bad.I myself have noticed that european time the dm's never come on before atleast 3-4 at night and i have school so i seldom get to attend.
Ofcourse this doesn't happen all the time ,but it has proven to be an issue.

And as for you damn powerlamers who feel they need better EQ so you join some event and bash some monsters...SCREW YOU!!!!
I do really not like people who i try to speak with and just runs off like their gods..SCREW YOU!!!!

ohh and one more thing...yesterday i was on an event and i talked to someone who actually said:" aww is wish he would just give me my fucking treasure so i can get the hall back to my patrol in the crypt"
well...SCREW YOU!!!!

ohh and powerlamers remember this... SCREW YOU!!!!
"what was that?you didn't see?" SCREW YOU!!!!
ohh that makes me feel so good i think i'll repeat it...SCREW YOU!!!!SCREW YOU!!!!SCREW YOU!!!!
thanks for reading this (if anyone does that is emot-yum.gif)
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not_so_unique
Master


Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Posts: 199

Level: 13
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2003 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're in a "screwy" mood today, Jilessa!

Eh... I agree with what you say. Make your own RP fun and consider DM events to be an RP bonus. I would almost even say forgo the treasure at the end of the DM event... or limit it to gold or some minor XP. But, some people might stop attending and DM events are how the uber items are introduced into the Dyso economy.

I for one enjoy the events and would attend just for an opportunity to RP.

The glory is in the battle! Victory is the just reward!
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Jon316
PostMon 05/26/03 6:30am
seems like someone has a case of a screw loose... ...  Reply with quote
 
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