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Little Teapot
 Tue 06/17/03 5:06pm
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Kindo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 4068
Level: 48
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Let's see now...they managed to create the most dull and boring story ever, the graphics are total crap, there are no interesting characters whatsoever in the story, armor replaces body, helmet replaces head, the voicesets are dull, the portraits are lousy, the voiceacting is stupid, the music sucks, it's a pain in the butt to create your own customisations...
I think that's all I can think of at the moment. I'll add more if it comes up. |
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dreamin'
Hero
Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 625
Level: 22
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Those points would be true if you would point out one single game that does all this better. Fact is, NWN is not perfect, but I'm perfectly happy that it provides me groundbreaking tools to very easily make my own worlds... ever tried to make custom content for the infinity engine games? (BG, IWD) And I don't talk about some voicesets or portraits, that doesn't qualify as content  |
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Sep
Elder
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Posts: 899
Level: 26
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Only thing I hate about Bioware is when the site goes down for maintenence right after I make a post asking for advice about RPing a new char I am going to play on here. Oh the timing! 
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Sep
Elder
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Posts: 899
Level: 26
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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AND THEN I GO TO REFRESH THIS PAGE AND GET A BLANK WHITE SCREEN WITH:
phpBB : Critical Error
Could not connect to the database
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Little Teapot
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Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 2332
Level: 39
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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they won't let me make Calm Emotions with their goddamn engine that doesn't even have a 3d element like EVERY OTHER 3D GRAPHICS GAME ON THE MARKET
you can't fly, you can't make people get tossed, you can't make them slide...
arrg...
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Matthijs says:
oh ja, ik weet het zonet nog niet
Matthijs says:
het ziet er toch wel een beetje naar uit dat we nederlands praten
Matthijs says:
mischien moet ik dan maar eens vaker nederlands gaan praten
Matthijs says:
kan je me ook meteen niet op al mijn spellinsfouten wijzen
There you have it! indisputable proof Solo's a fascist!!! |
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Sep
Tue 06/17/03 5:41pm
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| Uh.. youre on your own there. I just want to get feedback on my char. |
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Kindo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 4068
Level: 48
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| So what you're saying is that simply because it's fairly easy to create your own worlds, it justifies the fact that they made the most crappy game in the world themselves? |
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Sep
Tue 06/17/03 6:09pm
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| Well, this "most crappy game" sure has been the main source of entertainment for me for the past year or so. |
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Kindo
Tue 06/17/03 6:23pm
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| And it's not thanks to BioWare. The work they did (the SP campaign) is rather crappy, don't you think? |
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Sep
Elder
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Posts: 899
Level: 26
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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The work they did (creating the toolset that was used to make Dyso, adapting 3 ed PnP better than anything else, integrating DM CLIENT, and constant support and patches, with new content) is a major breakthrough, the first of its kind, and will only get better with upcoming expansions. The replay factor alone makes this game unmatchable for the price. 2500 user modules posted. even if 96% of them are absolute dog poop, thats still 100 different adventures to play.
But yes, I do agree, the SP campaign, at least up till Chapter 2 when I quit playing it for good, was a bunch of crap.
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Uin
Tue 06/17/03 6:41pm
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| Bio are EXTREMELY lazy, you cannot rely on unpaid, uncontracted and probably not half as skilled ppl to make your gameworld for you. |
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Sep
Elder
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Posts: 899
Level: 26
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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I dont follow. Bio provided a program that allows the best computer simulation of PnP D&D available. DMs and worldbuilders could see their creations in 3D real time, and have all the hassle of dice rolling and rulechecking handled by the computer. It is a great adaptation.
That said, playing NWN has inspired me to seek a PnP group to play with that can provide things the computer cannot: A face to face RP experience in real real-time with a dedicated DM where the only constraint is imagination.
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ShadowCore
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Joined: 25 Nov 2002
Posts: 2833
Level: 42
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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The work they did (creating the toolset that was used to make Dyso, adapting 3 ed PnP better than anything else, integrating DM CLIENT, and constant support and patches, with new content) is a major breakthrough, the first of its kind, and will only get better with upcoming expansions.
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Actually, it wasn't groundbreaking, it wasn't new, and it wasn't the first of it's kind.
Level making has been done LOTS of times before, world making has been done loads of times before as well, the DM client was introduced in Vampire: The Masquerade-redemption, scripting isn't new either(if you read game development boards, you'll see lots of questions and things about making scripting engines, and they'll usually be answered by referring to pretty old scripting engines), and as everyone has stated, the rest of the game is almost utter crap.
Now, not being new isn't a crime or even bad, but they should've done a better job. If you'd look at the patch readme file, and search for "scripting" "building" or similar words, you'll see way way way too many errors and bugs and(in my opinion), they shouldn't have released it in this state(yes, yes, I know, pressure, long development etc. etc., but still....).
Also, the abilities the engine provided for building aren't too great either, if I would've done it, I would've done it differently.
Also, the way some of the engine has been constructed is way too indirect, because I've been one of the few people on-line to actually publish soundsets(why doesn't anyone else do this???), I know what a hassle and what bullshit it IS to do such a thing.
First, you need to get the sounds(logical step), then you need to enter a strref number which refers to the dialog.tlk file into the soundset.2da file, so the NAME of the soundset can be displayed(why oh WHY not just a string???), THEN you have to enter two or three different versions of filenames. Then, there's the linking file involved, and all it does is point the appropriate types of sounds(attack etc.) to the right files(WHY???? They already use naming conventions for that....so WHY???), and then it also points for each seperate sound to the dialog.tlk via strref number(again), to be able to display the text.
ANd to make it even worse, the only way you'll be able to hear the sounds, you'd have to have something listed in the exact same column in the .2da file as the person using the sounds. And I'm not even sure about the text getting across without having that as well(It may not get across, since it uses the dialog.tlk and may just communicate a number).
Portraits aren't nearly as bad, but naming conventions have made sure Ihave about 5(!) different completely the same copies of the Baldur's Gate(2) portrait pack, several strays from that pack, and three differently named but for the rest exactly the same Icewind Dale packs. BAH!!
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Sep
Elder
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Posts: 899
Level: 26
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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Eh, I am not explaing myself again:
The work they did (creating the toolset that was used to make Dyso, adapting 3 ed PnP better than anything else, is a major breakthrough,
integrating DM CLIENT, the first of its kind,
and constant support and patches, with new content will only get better with upcoming expansions.
does that make sense? im a little off today... need more coffee or somethin.
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ShadowCore
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Joined: 25 Nov 2002
Posts: 2833
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Have you not read what I said? It wasn't groundbreaking, because it had been done before, so it wasn't the first either, and I never said anything about the patches...please, repeating yourself doesn't make for a good...well...anything!!
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Sep
Elder
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Posts: 899
Level: 26
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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name another game that follows 3e PnP D&D rules, i cant think of any
*checks to see what forum he is in... ah good CRF*
FUCK VTM. Talking D&D here, and i regret not explicitly stating it.
anyway...i like NWN and what the admins and mods did with it to make Dyso.
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Little Teapot
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Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 2332
Level: 39
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Patches are a sign that there's WAY too many bugs in the game.
they're doing the same thing with patches that they should have done in beta testing before they released the damn game.
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Matthijs says:
oh ja, ik weet het zonet nog niet
Matthijs says:
het ziet er toch wel een beetje naar uit dat we nederlands praten
Matthijs says:
mischien moet ik dan maar eens vaker nederlands gaan praten
Matthijs says:
kan je me ook meteen niet op al mijn spellinsfouten wijzen
There you have it! indisputable proof Solo's a fascist!!! |
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ShadowCore
Great Deity
Joined: 25 Nov 2002
Posts: 2833
Level: 42
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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3e PnP???? Icewind Dale 2, and I think they did a better job at it as well....
And yes, TP, that's right.....
Anyway, I've said what I wanted to say, and I'll leave it at that before people get mad at me for flaming their favorite game 
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Kindo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 4068
Level: 48
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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I just like to remeniss, thinking back on the amazingly wonderful Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale. Damn those games rock. I could sit for hours just listening to the music, or I could fool around with the zillions of NPCs available (cuz they were INTERESTING or had some kind of CHARACTER!) or I could just sit back and think bout the incredibly cool stories they made.
In NWN, I have absolutely nothing to remeniss about. The music annoys me, I wanted to kill all the NPCs, I did not feel anything at all about the story...and the graphics...ugh man. |
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Kindo
Great Deity
Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 4068
Level: 48
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Sep wrote: |
| name another game that follows 3e PnP D&D rules, i cant think of any |
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Sep
Elder
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Posts: 899
Level: 26
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Well, IWD2, never played, it was either that or NWN (budget) and i picked NWN. Patches have not only had bugfixes, but also new content. Its different when you have a team of however many devs testing bugs in the OC, as opposed to tens of thousands of players testing thousands of different customized modules. The live team is probably the best in the biz right now. Having the world playtest and report bugs is great. I dont view multiple patches as a sign of a bad initial code, but more of a willingness to fix oversights that possibly could not have tested due to the incredibly user-customizable content.
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Coral_Reef
Grandmaster
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Posts: 252
Level: 14
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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I don't care that the included module sucks. I'm having so much fun in multiplayer I'll never finish the official campaign (stopped after chapter 2).
Like I said. Playing NWN is like playing with the model airplanes I made out of lego as a child....
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Last edited by Coral_Reef on Tue Jun 17, 2003 8:49 pm, edited 2 times in total |
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Kindo
Great Deity
Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 4068
Level: 48
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Before you are allowed to voice your opinions on anything, you must have played:
Baldur's Gate + Tales of the Sword Coast - (The first really good DnDRPG, first part of the Bhaalspawn saga)
Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn + Throne of Bhaal - (A perfect DnDRPG with a perfect ending to the Bhaalspawn saga)
Planescape: Torment - (The absolutely best storyline in gaming history, the singlemost interesting game in world history)
Optional/Perk:
Icewind Dale + Heart of Winter + Tales of the Luremaster
Icewind Dale 2
(DnD hack 'n slash with a good story)
These statements are not open for debate. Just stating a few facts. Not my intention to go off topic. Debates will be held in a new topic that will be created soon. |
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Sep
Tue 06/17/03 7:37pm
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| uh, Ill voice my opinion as I see fit, thanks! |
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Glorin
Tue 06/17/03 7:39pm
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| Sep, a word of advice, just ignore anything ShadowCore says..He just likes to hear himself talk. |
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Sep
Tue 06/17/03 7:42pm
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| hehe... likes to read himself type? im not taking anything personally, sorry if thats how its coming off, im just here for the debate. |
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Coral_Reef
Tue 06/17/03 7:43pm
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| I'd be willing to listen to peoples opinion if they have only played this one game. |
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Kindo
Tue 06/17/03 7:45pm
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| They have nothing valid to compare it to. |
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ShadowCore
Great Deity
Joined: 25 Nov 2002
Posts: 2833
Level: 42
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, Glorin, you're the one who likes to hear himself talk, since I see little decent post from you.
And f you haven't played those games you are indeed unbiased(which is a plus), but you also have NOTHING to compare it to, since you could take all of the bad things of the engine, and other things, for being normal, which isn't good.
I know, I may have been biased because I've played most of the better RPGs(and I loved Planescape and Fallout  ), but I think after those, something better should have come out of NWN.
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